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Catching Koi, your help please?

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sbeehre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 12:21pm
your ignorance is whats dumb! what im talking about is a biomass! if you have large carp in a lake they will require x amount of food and the bigger the fish the bigger the food requirement. So a large Carp will eat as much as say 4 small ones.... so having larger fish in the lake will cut down significantly on the amount of small fish that its able to support.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

your ignorance is whats dumb! what im talking about is a biomass! if you have large carp in a lake they will require x amount of food and the bigger the fish the bigger the food requirement. So a large Carp will eat as much as say 4 small ones.... so having larger fish in the lake will cut down significantly on the amount of small fish that its able to support.
 
 I don't think Rusky was disputing any of those points Sbeehre.
 
 I took him to mean it would not be a longtime solution to eliminating
 them entirely & that is the objective under consideration.
 
 Besides how do you set about to ensure the smaller ones are eliminated
 & even if you succeeded, then surely the larger breeding fish along with
 any existing eggs, smaller fish would soon re establish themselves.
 
 Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenshin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

that way you keep the numbers down reducing their impact and the fish will just grow and grow


LOLWUT? r u sure u know what your talking about?


Be patient and calm – for no one can catch fish in anger. –Herbert Hoover
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 2:51pm
do you? its pretty common knowledge that Carp are only a problem if they are left to breed and breed and breed in an enclosed waterway! if they are managed accordingly the impacts are minimal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

 Besides how do you set about to ensure the smaller ones are eliminated
 & even if you succeeded, then surely the larger breeding fish along with
 any existing eggs, smaller fish would soon re establish themselves.
 
 Cheers


you are always going to have some small fish but if they are managed then its not a problem... i dont know how you would get rid of them all together as it was probably birds that carried eggs there in the first place and would probably do that again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:

 Besides how do you set about to ensure the smaller ones are eliminated
 & even if you succeeded, then surely the larger breeding fish along with
 any existing eggs, smaller fish would soon re establish themselves.
 
 Cheers


you are always going to have some small fish but if they are managed then its not a problem... i dont know how you would get rid of them all together as it was probably birds that carried eggs there in the first place and would probably do that again.
 
 O.K. Sbeehre
 
 I take it, from what you say, that you believe , that koi will virtually
 NEVER be eliminated.
 
 Now for the 64K question ..... Do you ALWAYS kill any koi landed, as
 the law states you must ?
 
 Cheers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

your ignorance is whats dumb! what im talking about is a biomass! if you have large carp in a lake they will require x amount of food and the bigger the fish the bigger the food requirement. So a large Carp will eat as much as say 4 small ones.... so having larger fish in the lake will cut down significantly on the amount of small fish that its able to support.
 
What a load of crap.  Going by your theory if you leave the big ones alone and they breed, then you have more smaller fish in the long run and your back to square one with the problem of juvenile fish. 
 
However, koi are sexually mature at a young age and they too also release many eggs, BUT not as much as say a Big carp.  A 8kg carp may release say 8 times more eggs then a 1kg koi, no?
 
Eliminating the largest koi carp, then moving onto the smaller fish would be the right thing to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 7:19pm
Just curious, but does anyone know just what these koi do in fact eat in their natural environment ( if such a thing exists)
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bazza View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2008 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by penguin penguin wrote:

Just curious, but does anyone know just what these koi do in fact eat in their natural environment ( if such a thing exists)
 
 Penquins are their favourite food apparently Tim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 9:19am
Originally posted by penguin penguin wrote:

Just curious, but does anyone know just what these koi do in fact eat in their natural environment ( if such a thing exists)


nobody knows yet... but from research done overseas they eat stuff that lives in the bottom of the lake or river ie snails, fresh water mussels anything like that really. I have heard that the Waikato uni is going to try and do a study to find out what they actually eat in the Waikato River.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Rusky Rusky wrote:

What a load of crap.  Going by your theory if you leave the big ones alone and they breed, then you have more smaller fish in the long run and your back to square one with the problem of juvenile fish. 
 
However, koi are sexually mature at a young age and they too also release many eggs, BUT not as much as say a Big carp.  A 8kg carp may release say 8 times more eggs then a 1kg koi, no?
 
Eliminating the largest koi carp, then moving onto the smaller fish would be the right thing to do.


ok lets just agree to not agree then Adam....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 9:22am
Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:


I take it, from what you say, that you believe , that koi will virtually
NEVER be eliminated.

Now for the 64K question ..... Do you ALWAYS kill any koi landed, as
the law states you must ?


yep and DoC know they missed the boat on that a LONG time ago, im surprised people think that they are doing their bit by killing Carp and its going to help out! :lol: its not so why bother. I think that answer just answered your last question....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 10:26am
Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

Originally posted by bazza bazza wrote:


I take it, from what you say, that you believe , that koi will virtually
NEVER be eliminated.

Now for the 64K question ..... Do you ALWAYS kill any koi landed, as
the law states you must ?


yep and DoC know they missed the boat on that a LONG time ago, im surprised people think that they are doing their bit by killing Carp and its going to help out! :lol: its not so why bother. I think that answer just answered your last question....
 
Your reply reads contradictory to that stated in the adjacent
"Karapiro access" thread.
I took your "yep" stated here in answer to the question ..... "Do
always kill Koi that you land? ".... to mean that you do ........ however
on the Karapiro thread you say that you don't.
My understanding is that it is a requirement in law, to kill any koi
landed.
Maybe the law only applies to the transfer of koi & killing is an
obligation that anglers are expexted to abide by for I cannot
imagine you would be silly enough to breaking the law on a  public
forum.
Anyone here aware of the actual legal situation regards releasing
koi ?
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sbeehre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 11:11am
i choose not to kill them as its pointless and i just don't like killing a defenseless animal for killings sake.... if i wanted to use one for burley or something then fine but im not going to kill it for nothing. I couldn't care less about posting this on a public forum as i know im not spreading fish around which is what the powers that be are afraid of! all im doing it returning it back to the water it came from.
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Clark Reid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 2:15pm
So what you really mean is is that because it suits your own personal purpose you have decided to flout a law regardless of the fact it was put in place with sound waterway management purpose just because it suits your own selfish cause.
 
Harden the **** up and kill them as the law requires you to do and an ounce of sporting morality would insist you would do. Their numbers dicate there is no reason not to so your argument to non comliance is ridiculous. If pursuing your sport within the laws of this land is repugnant to you... find another sport!
 
The same as a nearly dead 26cm snapper should be returned to the water even though it's "pointless' because it's gut hooked and dying... the laws put in place to protect a fishery dictate that you should not return a koi and you shouldn't... there are reasons for that law, albeit not your reasons... to do so is ignorant, selfish and a makes you a blight on Kiwi sporting attitudes.
 
There are "stupid" laws... this is not one of them!!!
 
Simply you have indicated pretty well where you fish and where you plan to fish... I hope the F&G officer that decides to follow this up treats you will all the leniency a MAF officer does to the guy with the undersized snapper who thought it was "pointless" to return it.
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Clark Reid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clark Reid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

do you? its pretty common knowledge that Carp are only a problem if they are left to breed and breed and breed in an enclosed waterway! if they are managed accordingly the impacts are minimal.
 
Absolute hogwash... Have you even read any of the scientific studies done on these "things"????
 
You appear to be making this up as you go along.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rusky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2008 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by sbeehre sbeehre wrote:

Originally posted by penguin penguin wrote:

Just curious, but does anyone know just what these koi do in fact eat in their natural environment ( if such a thing exists)


fresh water mussels anything like that really.
 
How would they be able to crunch a freshwater mussel?  For someone whos fishes for Koi Carp on a regular basis you know very little about there diet.  Why don't you open some up next time and look at what is in its stomach/gut Simon?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2008 at 6:09am
they east mussels overseas so why not here? and as for their diet well the scientists at waikato uni don't know what they eat yet so im not to to worried about me not knowing! :lol: as long as they eat my bait it doesn't really matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sbeehre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2008 at 6:18am
Originally posted by Clark Reid Clark Reid wrote:

Simply you have indicated pretty well where you fish and where you plan to fish... I hope the F&G officer that decides to follow this up treats you will all the leniency a MAF officer does to the guy with the undersized snapper who thought it was "pointless" to return it.


ooh im so scared! LOL ha ha ha Carp are here to stay and the sooner people realise they are a worthy sport fish and stop rolling out the tired old lines like they eat trout, they eat native fish they blah blah blah the better!

its pretty obvious to see that the not returning fish to the water law was created so that people could be prosecuted if they spread them into an area they weren't already present... And DoC has had plenty of opportunity to come and bust any of us as we post up all the time where we are going fishing! but i have never seen anyone. I think DoC realise that asking a small group of Carp anglers to kill the small amount of fish they catch wont make any difference! especially when they know that the Koi Carp Classic doesn't even scratch the surface. So in short i will never kill any Carp unless i have a use for one like burley or something when i go out fishing in the sea.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt Asparagus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2008 at 7:38am
sbeehre.... Kill them. If you do not like causing the poor things pain and stress, why catch them in the 1st place? And if you don't like killing them  by leaving them on the bank or something, just iki them, wham instant kill. Take them home, freeze them for bait for the neighbour, feed it to the cat, hell, just chuck them in a bush. They really are water living possums pal.
There is so very much information on the damage these things do to waterways that it is hugely wrong for you to suggest otehrwise. Sure, if oyu are only catching one or two fish, it is not going to make much of a dent in the population...but please make your dents as big as possible, and do the country a favour, and KILL the darn things!
Just because it is a LAw to kill them, does not mean it is stupid mate. You are not a lone sane voice crying in the wilderness at needless slaughter of por innoffensive lil' critters... these htings really ARE very bad for the environment. They are just as bad for the water you have just taken them from as they would be on any water you took them too, so come on, be a man, do the right hting, harden up and kill the little sods.
Stu.

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